Interview: Shannon Lee, Justin Lin and Jonathan Tropper on Cinemax’s ‘Warrior’

Warrior

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If you ask Shannon Lee, daughter of legendary martial arts movie star Bruce Lee, about the genesis of the new Cinemax series Warrior, (2019-present), she might say its rebirth started with family lore.

Left: Executive Producer Justin Lin. Middle: Executive producer, Shannon Lee. Right: Creator and Executive producer, Jonathan Tropper. Photo credit: Shutterstock / Andrew Walker

“This was a story that I always knew about in my family,” said Lee at a recent roundtable at HBO’s New York offices that featured fellow Warrior executive producers Justin Lin and Jonathan Tropper. “It was just part of the story of my family that my father was supposed to start a TV show and was not given the lead because he was Chinese—that he had, in fact, created a show that he had pitched that he was never recognized for in any way.”

Indeed, the famous, San Francisco-born performer, who died shortly before the premiere of the 1973 hit film Enter the Dragon, never saw his concept turn into reality. Instead, the TV powers that be put their energies into a show called Kung Fu (1972-1975), which featured non-Chinese actor David Carradine (a thespian untrained at the time in martial arts) as a quasi-peaceful itinerant monk utilizing the eponymous skillset in the Old West. Not quite what the elder Lee had envisioned, and certainly not with a corresponding authenticity in terms of casting or dialogue. And despite his success, the original idea—encompassing a pre-Chinese Exclusion Act (1882) universe that referenced the history of immigrants from the mainland, their hopes during the Gold Rush, and their travails in laying down railroad tracks for their new country—just wasn’t what producers were seeking. The notion of creating an animated offering was bandied about, but it didn’t lead anywhere. As such, the treatment faded into the background. It became part of TV history.

Still, the endeavor wasn’t forgotten, though it popped back up in a surprising way. According to Shannon Lee, the process of its revitalization truly began when she stepped in to start running her father’s legacy in late 2000. At that juncture, her mother, who wanted to retire and never truly ran the legacy as a business, set down all the archival materials as part of this effort.

Andrew Koji as “Ah Sahm” Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

“She sent the archive down, and going through those materials, I came across the treatment and the notes, and I was like, ‘Oh, here’s this thing I’ve heard about my whole life, and I don’t have a production company,’” said the younger Lee. “I have a lot of other cleanup work to do. So I’m putting it back in the box.”

Ultimately, this discovery proved auspicious, as Warrior, which is based on her famous dad’s writings, came to fruition following discussions with Lin, who, together with Tropper and Shannon Lee, created a show inspired by these tantalizing materials. The series, which debuts its first of 10 episodes on April 5, represents the first TV teamup among Tropper under Tropper Ink Productions, Lin for Perfect Storm Entertainment, and Lee for Bruce Lee Entertainment. An action-packed drama full of bloody conflicts amid San Francisco’s tong (read: organized crime family) wars of the late 19th century, Warrior tells the story of Ah Sahm (played by Andrew Koji), a young recruit from mainland China who finds himself immersed in two worlds: his base in the midst of bustling Chinatown; and his engagement in the racist, corrupt political sphere frequented by Caucasian politicians … including the then-mayor. Sahm, who is seeking a special person in his life, takes up the hatchet for his gang, the Hop Wei, though his encounters lead him to adventures outside this arena—among them a romantic entanglement with the mayor’s non-Chinese wife. Complications ensue. People get bumped off. And throughout, the series, which covers everything from the rivalries with local labor leaders to pitched battles in the streets (as well as in the region’s brothels), regales audiences with a complex, intrigue-laden tale filled with atmosphere, period details and an innovative approach to a historical subject.

Olivia Cheng as “Ah Toy”. Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

That tack was not a result of any coincidence. “There’s a traditional route [in] development … and I felt like that was not going to be this,” said Lin, who, after meeting with Shannon Lee, reviewed the eight-page typewritten treatment by her father and found that “it blew my mind because the treatment that he wrote was so ahead of its time.” Among the unusual aspects of the materials was the setting, a chapter in the Chinese American experience that was not well known to many Americans. “That was so important to me because growing up, [I found] that was like two sentences in the U.S. history books,” noted Lin, the director of films such as the original Fast & Furious (2009), as well as episodes of TV shows that have included True Detective (2014-present), and a producer of efforts in both media. He added that the writings felt “a little dated,” owing to their tailoring for 1970s television, though “it was still very postmodern; it was layered.”

Subsequent meetings with Tropper and others spurred ideas about the development. “Our goal was to say, ‘Hey, let’s try to evolve or elevate the genre,” said Lin, who would, as a Chinese-American individual growing up in the United States, watch westerns and see others of his ethnicity portraying “extras” rather than main characters. Lin pointed to the fact that Warrior “is an American story”—and therefore an opportunity to provide a yarn that was well researched (“going into the library and really digging in” was part and parcel of the information-gathering segment of the initiative) and featured a diverse cast of Asian Americans … one that Bruce Lee undoubtedly would approve.

Dean Jagger as “Dylan Leary”. Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

“When people talk about diversity, it’s really about opportunity,” said Lin, clarifying that creating “opportunities not just in front of the screen” but also off as well so that people gain experience is “the only way you can grow and evolve.” In that light, the show’s character depictions must “portray them as human beings who have ambitions, flaws, with a sense of humor—who are trying to survive,” he observed. “Those are all American traits.”

One of the ways Warrior does this is to have most of the dialogue spoken in English, with a distinctive sound cue and specific camera movements signifying the switch from Cantonese and/or other languages to unsubtitled, spoken dialogue—as well as to showcase the tong members speaking in English to each other … while their comments remain untranslated when non-Chinese characters are shown watching them.

“That’s our conceit,” said Tropper, whose credentials include creating TV series such as Banshee (2013-2016) and writing the screenplay and novel of This Is Where I Leave You (2014). He clarified that the endeavor is like “a universal translator” for English-speaking viewers. “It wouldn’t make sense for our Chinese characters to be speaking in English when there are people who speak English in the room, because how would that English be differentiated?” Tropper asked. “So we came up with a conceit [involving] the camera move … my version of what I call a Hunt for Red October (1990) transition–to essentially establish that they’re not speaking English and then let them speak English.”

Such novel strategies also informed the onscreen portrayals, which aim “to be true to what was going on at that time” while “subverting” potentially offensive canards. “We’re very careful to make sure, every character is a very well-rounded character who could be the star of [his or her] own show,” Tropper said. “In that sense. I think we’re never in danger of falling into stereotypes because all of our characters are three-dimensional, very-well-realized characters.” Furthermore, he stated, “we always take the attitude that no one’s a hero. No one’s a villain. Everyone is just kind of trying to survive Chinatown.”

Hoon Lee as “Wang Chao”. Olivia Cheng as “Ah Toy”. Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

To that end, the narrative features a number of fascinating nuances, including a depiction of a madam in the area who was based on a real historical figure named Ah Toy. Also shown is the creation of the Chinatown police squad to patrol the territory, where vibrant markets and busy shops coexist with seedy opium dens and tong-monitored businesses. “You don’t want to portray it as the den of iniquity, but it was a more lawless place than the rest of San Francisco,” said Tropper, indicating that Warrior is not supposed to be “a historical docudrama,” though “it clearly is a very heightened version” of that period. For example, the Hop Wei wear suits inspired by Giorgio Armani designs, while their tong opponents wear long Western dusters. Other facets include a special vocabulary referenced throughout that supplies a host of euphemisms or terms to replace commonly known words (such as “ducks” for Caucasian people, “scrap” for fight and “salt” for the ocean)—some of which are derived from Cantonese-to-English translations—along with profanity that infuses the dialogue with a topical sensibility. “The idea was to make the Chinese the most accessible characters on the show,” said Tropper. “So we gave them the most contemporary sounding dialogue, and that’s something that I have to [do] as a showrunner very carefully.”

The need to document the conflicts of the time—particularly the clash between workers of Irish heritage who felt they were being supplanted by Chinese laborers under the auspices of the wealthy robber barons— also informs Warrior, which candidly (and disturbingly) offers, via slurs and attitudes, a glimpse of the anti-Chinese racism permeating the era. As such, the content is highly relevant, with Shannon Lee pointing to the U.S. presidential election of a few years ago and the Me Too movement being germane in this regard. “It’s still a world we’ve not seen before in media,” said Lee, adding that the show attempts “to shine a light on the tension and the issues of the time, but also with a depth of character and hopefully with subverting expectations at the same time.” In this regard, an effort to “make the characters powerful within their worlds” and “make the women powerful” was prescribed in the hopes of turning offensive stereotypes on their heads. Additionally, in a move that channels Bruce Lee’s influence on hip-hop, Cantonese songs in this musical genre often accompany at the end credits, thereby giving the show a contemporary feel.

“We needed to sort of bring this sense of style and the sense of style that my father had … and the way he moved and the currentness of his soul [to the production],” said Shannon Lee. “It’s definitely a part of the zeitgeist of the show to incorporate some of these elements.”

WARRIOR
Rich Ting as “Bolo”. Jason Tobin as “Young Jun”. Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

Of further interest are the movie references pervading the series, which conjures up homages to her father’s own films, as well as everything from Western staples (certain segments supply an Ennio Morricone-style soundtrack that harkens back to Sergio Leone’s Italian-made pictures starring Clint Eastwood) to The Wizard of Oz (1939). Take the character of Bolo, for instance—a nod to Bruce Lee’s Enter the Dragon co-star Bolo Yeung, who played the muscular villain named, of course, Bolo in the flick. In Warrior, Bolo, a Hop Wei enforcer, is played by Rich Ting, who not only is skilled in Lee’s own martial arts methodology of Jeet Kune Do, but also turned out to be a cousin of one of Shannon Lee’s good friends. “It’s just a coincidence,” said Lee, who noted that Ting revealed his relationship after his successful audition for the part … as well as that Ting, because he had a large build and played football, was given “Bolo” as his nickname earlier in his life. “Throughout the entire series, we are dropping in little Easter-egg references for fans, [though we’re] never going too far because obviously the world is the world.”

Tropper said that although “the worst thing you could do when you’re running a show is think about the target market,” he hopes that the audience is “pretty wide,” with consumption by Bruce Lee fans, action aficionados, period martial arts movie buffs and Asian viewers of potential interest. Given the focus in the series on kung fu styles such as Wing Chun, as well as Tropper’s own training in and passion for martial-arts disciplines, there are strong bloodlines running through the show, though it also has an evolutionary quality that matches its provenance in complexity and authenticity. For example, the fight/stunt coordinator, Brett Chan, who honed his chops on pictures such as I, Robot (2004) and Push (2009), offers a variety of martial arts styles to incorporate into his regimen, though Tropper noted that protagonist Ah Sahm is trained in Wing Chun when he arrives and as part of his “journey,” he becomes “more efficient, stripping away some of the pretty stuff” to “become the warrior he thought he always was.” Moreover, Tropper clarified that the series avoids falling into stereotypical traps such as the misconception that “every Chinese guy can do martial arts.”

“A lot of the really dangerous hatchet men in it aren’t martial artists,” said Tropper. “They’re just brawlers and fighters. So we’re not going to have [kung fu in] every episode.”

Lin, who was a big basketball fan while growing up, referred to the sport’s triangle-offense strategy as a comparison. “It’s very much like when I was growing up in the eighties,” he said, pointing to famed National Basketball Association coach Phil Jackson’s use of the tactic in a reactive manner that encourages passing and taking advantages of openings in the defense. “As Ah Sahm evolves, the environment of the character is going to change, [along with] the philosophy and how he would fight.”

On the other hand, “honoring” certain “genre conventions” is a major part of the ideology behind Warrior, suggested Lin, though he stressed that this methodology wouldn’t manifest itself as “a slow burn”; instead, such qualities would be elevated to a different level. And for Tropper, condensing everything into the episodes requires a state of mind that reflects not necessarily as much of the “writer-room format [coming] from the 22 episode broadcast network model,” but from the notion of trying “to make each hour its own little movie” and “cram as much as possible” into the framework.

Dianne Doan as “Mai Ling”. Photo credit: HBO/ David Bloomer

“That’s kind of just the rhythm I got into after four seasons of Banshee,” he said. “I’m fascinated by being able to interconnect separate plotlines. This goes back to my Star Wars (1977) days—I used to love watching those movies The Empire Strikes Back (1980) and Return of the Jedi (1983), where you’d be with Han Solo here and be so immersed in this, and all of a sudden now you go back into being with Luke and Darth Vader, and you’re like, ‘Wait!’ There were always three stories going on, and yet they all affected each other. So I love having multiple stories going on in the show that ultimately impact each other and come together in ways you’re not expecting.”

To Shannon Lee, the overall picture is one of a series that remains true to the spirit of her father’s original concept. “My father always wanted and was searching for ways to give an authentic portrayal of the Asian experience the Asian culture and of his martial arts and Chinese kung fu,” she said.

“This shows stands on its own because it’s compelling, the action is great. It’s got great characters, a great story. It’s rich with conflict and tension and the setting and then the relevance of all these themes.” In fact, according to Lee, “the show itself has to be its own contained universe.”

“It has to be a compelling piece of action drama that both entertains but also makes you think,” she said, indicating that the inspiration of her famous dad is a facet that is carried throughout the work. “My father was not about staying within the lines. He wanted to play and be able to move and express and incorporate the totality of experience.”

As part of that experience, Warrior is grounded in a significant ethos. “The essence is what’s important for me here, and that it stands within the boundaries of his legacy,” Lee explained. “But those boundaries are quite broad.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79rtcCnaeyo

Comments

One response to “Interview: Shannon Lee, Justin Lin and Jonathan Tropper on Cinemax’s ‘Warrior’”

  1. James Curnow Avatar

    Great interview, Simon. Definitely a series I’m looking forward to.